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 Post subject: Re: George R.R. Martin's "Not a Blog"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:28 am 
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I'm also trying really hard to get into Malazan, but Gardens of the Moon is just so...weird. The story has no flow or cohesion, and I'm finding it very difficult to care about all the different factions because the characterization is so poor. I hope it gets better soon. I heard that Memories of Ice is like the Storm of Swords of the series, and that's really the only thing driving me forward right now. But Gardens and Deadhouse are like Feast and Dance, geographically speaking, which is a good thing in this case?


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 Post subject: Re: George R.R. Martin's "Not a Blog"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:46 am 
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dragonbone wrote:
I'm also trying really hard to get into Malazan, but Gardens of the Moon is just so...weird. The story has no flow or cohesion, and I'm finding it very difficult to care about all the different factions because the characterization is so poor. I hope it gets better soon. I heard that Memories of Ice is like the Storm of Swords of the series, and that's really the only thing driving me forward right now. But Gardens and Deadhouse are like Feast and Dance, geographically speaking, which is a good thing in this case?


The way SE sets things up, it is unavoidable.

Generally, his individual volumes start out slow, but as they progress, the shit hits the fan. He does not work with cliffhangers, except for Dust of Dream, which is the first half of the final book.
However, he drops you in the middle of the plot and does not spoonfeed anything. Either you are into this type of thing or not.
One thing for certain: If you don´t like it / warm to it by the end of Memories of Ice, you can drop the cycle with no regrets. Will not be your shtick.

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 Post subject: Re: George R.R. Martin's "Not a Blog"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:57 am 
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Claven wrote:
moose wrote:
weniusa wrote:
Rex wrote:
Erikson > Martin

Gardens of the Moon is good, but not brilliant like GoT. I haven't read any more of his books yet, so maybe I will change my mind. For the time being, I stand by Martin > Erikson.


Gardens is his worst book by a mile. Just sayin'.


I don't know, at least in Gardens shit actually happened. I think the worst was Dust of Dreams, 500 pages of people travelling and talking about doing something? It was like ADWD Cut Scenes Edition.

If Erikson got rid of all that crap he could've made Dust of Dreams and Crippled God into one volume.


Re Dust of Dreams: Tuff one. It can be interpreted like you do. I still think it has a very determinate purpose - contrary to Gurm lately, SE knew what he was doing with that one. However, it is perfectly OK to dislike what he did with DoD. Sure is one of MY least favorites (which I reread the least). To me, I would have seen two options: (1) To follow your suggestion, you would have to start restructuring a few things starting Reaper´s Gale already - cut some stuff and put in other arcs that tighten up towards the finale, or...(2) add one or two volumes to flesh out what seems to be missing in DoD and tCG, making it uneven.
IMHO, as he had to deliver 1 book every year and had a deal for 10 books, he had too much stuff left to cram into the last third of the cycle, but having no time to fudge around indefinitely (like Gurm did/does), he decided to go for the whole cake.
Considering the circumstances, he did a neat job...but yeah, certain things in DoD/tCG could have been done differently...

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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:50 am 
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Yeah it's more of a subjective gripe. It's just that out of what, 11000 pages of the series at the VERY LEAST a good 3-4000 are various bonfire discussions among the marines.
It just can grate on you sometimes.
Erikson is great when he gets going, I really loved certain story arcs (Karsa, Tehol, Fiddler, Tavore), some I found weaker (Icarium and his angstburger-filled journey), but he really, really does prattle about nothing at times.


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:32 pm 
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I think that's what I love about it, to be honest, the prattling about nothing.

Nothing to do with your point, I think it's funny that so many claim that Erikson's weakness is characters, when he's created 10+ characters that ripped my heart out, and Gurm has... well, zero.


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:31 pm 
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moose wrote:
I think that's what I love about it, to be honest, the prattling about nothing.

Nothing to do with your point, I think it's funny that so many claim that Erikson's weakness is characters, when he's created 10+ characters that ripped my heart out, and Gurm has... well, zero.


When does this ripping occur? I'm almost done with Gardens and I'm still trying to figure what anyone's talking about. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 pm 
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None in Gardens.

Just try Deadhouse, and if you don't feel it by then, feel free to quit. But it's really the first proper book of the series.


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Fortunately, its no so bad that I'm willing to quit just yet. There's some unintentional humor to be had though. This random stirring of romance between Paran and Tatters born out of nothing but from being stuck in the same room together just about warmed my ice cold heart, but for all the wrong reasons. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:51 pm 
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He's a chubby chaser. :3


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:42 pm 
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moose wrote:
He's a chubby chaser. :3


Rucket.
Sweetlard.
Rumjugs.
...
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:44 pm 
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dragonbone wrote:
moose wrote:
I think that's what I love about it, to be honest, the prattling about nothing.

Nothing to do with your point, I think it's funny that so many claim that Erikson's weakness is characters, when he's created 10+ characters that ripped my heart out, and Gurm has... well, zero.


When does this ripping occur? I'm almost done with Gardens and I'm still trying to figure what anyone's talking about. :?


Yeah, GotM is the tricky one.
Let me put it like this: The first quarter of memories of Ice (which continues GotM) is pretty much one major info dump on GotM.

I still would do Deadhouse Gates first...

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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 pm 
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I was there the first time I read Gardens of the Moon. Actually gave up, then tried again. Second time I forced myself through even though so much flew right over my head. Then I got into Deadhouse Gates. Was better but different. Then Memories of Ice. And then House of Chains. And somewhere along the line I was hooked, and now that I have finished the cycle and Esslemont's books and the short stories I hunger for more.
Been re-reading bits from Gardens and I can promise you one thing. It is almost hilarious how easy it reads after having been through the entire story!!

Yes I am using two exclamation marks there 'cause it's true.

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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:52 pm 
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moose wrote:
He's a chubby chaser. :3


LOL! Its so weird though. Half the book I had no idea what she even looked like, and now every page there's a reference to how fat she is, and how her chubby cheeks are producing boners everywhere she goes. This book's insane. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:22 pm 
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dragonbone, I agree with everything you have said. The worst part for me was not knowing wtf was going on for roughly 70% of the book.

Thinks I liked:
Kruppe and his conversations with the gods in his dreams.
Whiskeyjack and Dujek, because they are so cool.
K'rul
Tool
Oppon, Shadowthrone and Cotillion

Things I disliked:
I honestly didn't understand anything about Tayschrenn (that was the puppet's name? I don't remember very well).
Adjunct Lorn was supposed to be a deep character, driven by the traumas of her childhood, but she came as a very shallow character. Her reasons for behaving like she did were a mystery, even if the author tried to explain them. The only good thing about her was Tool.
Paran and Tattersail's "love story": ugh, ugh, ugh. I'd rather read the sexual adventures of Dany and Daario, honestly.
The jaghut tyrant had so much promise... I hope he comes back in the following books.

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 Post subject: Re: Erikson & Esslemont - Malazan Book of the Fallen & Novel
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:25 am 
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Still have no idea what the hell Cotillion is, or how this whole possession thing with Sorry worked and why. Hopefully I'll get there soon. I really hate it when he giggles though. A hooded evil demi-god like thing should never giggle...


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